Why do muslims get a bad rap? Is it fair or not.

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

I personally have met more Muslims that I have a very favorable impression of them as group of religious followers. Whether it were people I met in Egypt, Israel, or in Europe (turks) and found nothing but admiration towards them. For me 9/11 didn't change that. I won't lie, I have had a few tense conversation with a few in the past, but at the end of the conversation they recognized all I want to see is peace. Another thing is that I never met with radical extremist before. If I did I probably would view them as a minority. In fact I do.

I do have an unfavorable view about the extremist views. As I would with any other group. I never really encountered it until I read some off the shit on this forum. It didn't scare me but it did harden me to certain aspects of this war. I found myself to realize because of this board we are at war. So I have harden myself towards guilt associated towards people death as a result of the war. Once I saw that I was considered an enemy. Once I saw and understood that I too could be beheaded, not because of my beleifs but because I was America. I quickly rethought some of the compassion I had towards the minority.

I think Muslims have gotten a bad rap for a small group of people. It is not fair at all. But it seems that this is the price that is being paid for them not solving the problem themself. This minority is killing any good will it has with nation. A small group of misguided people are destroying the prospect of peace for the future generations. I always thought the holocaust was not an one time event. I thought all a nation needed was a scapegoat for its woes. Well these extremeist are doing that. Shame, because most muslims are decent, good, kidn, god fearing people. I guess only time will tell what lies ahead. But it deosn't look good.

RIP Bhutto.

[4anybody...]

But it seems that this is the price that is being paid for them not solving the problem themself.



what do u mean by that?

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

I think that the countries that are having activities ought lay the smack down something fierce on these rouge groups. I mean they are ruining the name of a religion so quickly it is crazy.

[4anybody...]

yeah, they are giving the religion "a bad name"

i just want to point out tho that these groups didn't appear in a vaccuum. In their countries they offer free education, medical, food and community (in exchange for military loyalty for their rebellions) and people go to them because their governments can't provide these things.

So these groups won't go away until they end their poverty (which these countries have been trying to do ever since they were liberated from Colonial rule, but there are difficulties)

Similar things are going on in central and south america and africa, but the Muslim countries have access to oil money, which puts them on a different level.

My point is is that yes, these groups are violent and need to be stopped. But they are only a symptom of a fucced up world where 80% of the $ is controlled by %10 of the ppl. Stopping these groups would be like a doctor giving a bandaid to a cancer patient.

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

I think anything is possible. The protestants and catholics stopped killing each other, apartheid ended, slavery ended, so many things are possible. I just wish I saw the heads of Al Quaeda on video clips or being taken to the gallows. Swift just punishment is what is needed for people that pervert religion like they are. Destroying generations of their children. For what? Burning children, blowing up women, elderly people, and people who actually care like Bhutto. It sickens me.

[4anybody...]

Catholics and Protestants stopped fighting b/c they started taking their aggression out on the people they exploit around the world

de facto apartheid still exists

the slave trade still exists


I do not support muslim extremists or violence for that matter

i just don't think that Muslim extremists are the only criminals and we need to be real and address the issues that cause these ugly parts of our world

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

Catholics and Protestants stopped fighting b/c they started taking their aggression out on the people they exploit around the world

de facto apartheid still exists

the slave trade still exists


I do not support muslim extremists or violence for that matter

i just don't think that Muslim extremists are the only criminals and we need to be real and address the issues that cause these ugly parts of our world

lol, I'm not touching the exploiting part but they stopped because they didn't want the violence for the next generations. Aparthied, doesn't exists, but racism and separtions will be there for ahile, but it is much better now. Nothing is perfect, but it is much better. Slavery will always exist in some form. I agree it does, but I was referring to the african slave trade from the yesteryears in America. lol, there is a huge mental slavery going on here, but it can be solved through education.

I support violence if it is warranted. But it would be in a self defense mode. Not to just to get a point across. And you best believe innocent people wouldn't be part of the equation.

[4anybody...]

man, really, i'm not even talking about conspiracy theories or any kind of exaggerated self-pitying view of the world. I'm talking about accepted facts that are written about by major university professors

for Catholics and Protestants--check the book i posted about in the "book" thread. Catholics and Protestants found a shared belief in capitalism (and its relegating religion to a personal matter) and then went about with the slave trade, genocide of the american indians, and buying extemely underpriced goods from asia. This is far from not wanting violence for the next generation. If ur talking about the Ireland/northern ireland issue--that's very different and on a much smaller scale

apartheid--check books i posted in the thread "race: books, speeches...". And those books don't even touch the situations in africa and india

and modern slavery is very real: http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa061202a.htm



again, im not supporting violent extremists--i'm just pointing out that simply killing them won't solve the ills of the world. in fact, it prolly won't stop them from showing up.

[vexed less]

...i dont understand how a person can honestly be placed under such a general lable, such as 'muslim' or 'christian'....
...people have got to relise that one individual's beliefs are different to anothers even if they follow the same religion...

...in relation to this topic i will say that i try my best to not put a person into a catagory... (such as 'christian', 'muslim', 'us', 'them' and so on...) so in conclusion terrorist incidents dont shake my views on any 'muslim' individual...

[4anybody...]

...i dont understand how a person can honestly be placed under such a general lable, such as 'muslim' or 'christian'....
...people have got to relise that one individual's beliefs are different to anothers even if they follow the same religion...

...in relation to this topic i will say that i try my best to not put a person into a catagory... (such as 'christian', 'muslim', 'us', 'them' and so on...) so in conclusion terrorist incidents dont shake my views on any 'muslim' individual...


i agree. That's a good personal take.

but i think on a larger level is the fact that we're so quick to judge extremists and so slow to look at our part (the US and Europe) in this mess of a world

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

...i dont understand how a person can honestly be placed under such a general lable, such as 'muslim' or 'christian'....
...people have got to relise that one individual's beliefs are different to anothers even if they follow the same religion...

...in relation to this topic i will say that i try my best to not put a person into a catagory... (such as 'christian', 'muslim', 'us', 'them' and so on...) so in conclusion terrorist incidents dont shake my views on any 'muslim' individual...

I share the same sentiments to a certain degree.

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

i agree. That's a good personal take.

but i think on a larger level is the fact that we're so quick to judge extremists and so slow to look at our part (the US and Europe) in this mess of a world

shit, fuck that "our part." I didn't do shit to them psychos that would behead my little girls or blow them up for whatever is going through their sick heads. Nah, I ain't taking any blame for their issues. When you go out and knowingly blow up innocent people and think that's right something is wrong. And it most definitely something wrong with the extremist way of thinking.

Thanks for participating in this thread. The Bhutto murder has really moved me. Not so much about her being killed. but they hope that these people had for a better life being killed. Sad shit.

[Don Julio]

I THINK THE JEWS RUNNING THE MEDIA MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH HOW MUSLIMS ARE PORTRAYED IN THE MEDIA...

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

I THINK THE JEWS RUNNING THE MEDIA MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH HOW MUSLIMS ARE PORTRAYED IN THE MEDIA... yeah that was another profound thought by you. you goy a million of them. lol.

[Mr Dax]

1.6 billion muslims and 10% are extremist.......but more and more muslims want a islamic state these days and the west find this terrifying thats why they occopy some muslim lands......the west cant understand why muslims would want such a strict way of life and are worried that once the islamic state comes about that western values would b under threat which is not true

thats why thers soo much conflict and also once thers a islamic state thers a chance that the muslim countries will stop supplying oil to america which is another reason why ameerica went into war in iraq which has resulted in almost 900,000 civilians to die.

[Mr Dax]

as u can see now in iraq thers 100's of US companies in iraq sucking the ground dry and this has not gone well with the muslim world

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

^^^^ Sorry Dax but I am going to shock you. There is a HUGE push to end our need for foriegn oil. So if they don't want our money, in about 15 years they wont have it. It is crazy our money goes over there to help fund terrorism all over the globe. Hey, if they want a stricter lifestyle why is there so much bloodshed? You are not talking about the muslims I know and met over there in the middle east. These guys are small in numbers but ruthless in their desire to control others. I think you are so far off base about US sucking dry Iraq. First nobody cared for Iraq and all the countries want our money. You got this twisted logic about US bad, Middle East good. Shame you can see the truth. Which is we all are taking from each other exactly what we want. It is part of the human condition. We use. Hence like you do on this board. It is not about religion it is about action. A man can slap me, does that mean I have to slap him back? My wife and family can be insulted. Must I defend there honor and shoot him. Better yet, put yourself in the place of a parent who lost a child during the Bhutto assassination. Was that the US fault too?

No what the west can not understand why the need to hijack plans and murder people is ok. That's what we westerners can't understand. We can't understand how people cosign this. We have people protesting the war everyday. Voice how immoral it is. We don't understand why we don't see that from the other 90% that want peace.

[(--LazerScope-->>]

Look, some religions are more susceptible to extremism than others. It's just a fact, look throughout history.

For the "bad rap" that muslims are getting right now, it may be a little cold to say, but it's just their (or our, since I was born a muslim) turn. I have no doubt that eventually some other religion will come under global criticism and denouncing.

Of course, it certainly doesn't help the moderate muslims of the religion that the followers on that side of the world are practicing a perverted form of the religion. But, within the major religions practiced in the world, you'll always find some faction of extremism.

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

I don't think they are practicing a perverted form. There is no such thing as perverted form of a religion. It starts as a cult then become an religion of it own through time. These guy are not practicing Islam just a a person can't be a practicing Catholic and be pro choice. Yes, I have had that debate too. You can change something to fit your ideas and call it what it is known in it's original form. I grew up being taught Islam was a religion off peace. But in the last 30 years I have seen a shift. Generations are being taught hate and that's not cool. The moderates are lying down as sheep as soon will be swallowed unless they get some balls.

[(--LazerScope-->>]

I don't think they are practicing a perverted form. There is no such thing as perverted form of a religion. It starts as a cult then become an religion of it own through time.

I'd have to disagree here with you, Bar. Are you telling me that certain doctrines and practices can't be misinterpreted for a specific culture's social benefit? You grew up a muslim, so you KNOW that Islam affords WAY more rights to women than what's allowed by the Islamic extremists. You should know that in normal, practicing Islam, women have the right to divorce, while in the Taliban/Al-Qaeda practicing Islam doesn't even allow women the right to a job...or even to attend the mosque (there have been many instances of this in England, BTW!).

Which goes back to my original point. Damn near every religion will have one or more factions that warp its original intent for its own purposes. And ironically, doesn't therein lie the fallacy of religion. EVERY religion claims to be divinely perfect. But if so, how can it be misinterpreted (perverted) in the first place?

[Dr. ibarfly Jones]

lol, got me. good one.

[4anybody...]

shit, fuck that "our part." I didn't do shit to them psychos that would behead my little girls or blow them up for whatever is going through their sick heads. Nah, I ain't taking any blame for their issues. When you go out and knowingly blow up innocent people and think that's right something is wrong. And it most definitely something wrong with the extremist way of thinking.

Thanks for participating in this thread. The Bhutto murder has really moved me. Not so much about her being killed. but they hope that these people had for a better life being killed. Sad shit.


im just tired of ppl saying the solution is fixing the symptom and ignoring the problem

THAT shit is sad.