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ElCount
10-06-2009, 06:33 PM
The Demise of the Dollar

In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab states have launched secret moves with China, Russia and France to stop using the US currency for oil trading

By Robert Fisk

Tuesday, 6 October 2009

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.

The Americans, who are aware the meetings have taken place – although they have not discovered the details – are sure to fight this international cabal which will include hitherto loyal allies Japan and the Gulf Arabs. Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East. "Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."

This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil – yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy. China uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient. The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.

The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick. "One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," he said in Istanbul ahead of meetings this week of the IMF and World Bank. But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.

Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.

China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.

Furthermore, Chinese exports to the region now account for no fewer than 10 per cent of the imports of every country in the Middle East, including a huge range of products from cars to weapon systems, food, clothes, even dolls. In a clear sign of China's growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China's reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.

Ever since the Bretton Woods agreements – the accords after the Second World War which bequeathed the architecture for the modern international financial system – America's trading partners have been left to cope with the impact of Washington's control and, in more recent years, the hegemony of the dollar as the dominant global reserve currency.

The Chinese believe, for example, that the Americans persuaded Britain to stay out of the euro in order to prevent an earlier move away from the dollar. But Chinese banking sources say their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now. "The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told The Independent. "The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."

Chinese financial sources believe President Barack Obama is too busy fixing the US economy to concentrate on the extraordinary implications of the transition from the dollar in nine years' time. The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018.

The US discussed the trend briefly at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh; the Chinese Central Bank governor and other officials have been worrying aloud about the dollar for years. Their problem is that much of their national wealth is tied up in dollar assets.

"These plans will change the face of international financial transactions," one Chinese banker said. "America and Britain must be very worried. You will know how worried by the thunder of denials this news will generate."

Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html

Rize
10-06-2009, 06:34 PM
WTF

HonorAmongstThieves
10-06-2009, 07:12 PM
ABOUT FUCKING TIME

ElCount
10-06-2009, 08:30 PM
It's shocking how little press these stories get considering the scope of the consequences.

These talks, rumors, etc... whatever you want to call them have persisted for months and even years before then.

A basket of currencies will ultimately also have the repercussions of any other fiat currency but it will definitely have negative effects for the dollar.

All we hear is denial.

Oil Prices Back to $150 it seems.

Rize
10-06-2009, 08:33 PM
y is this not a bigger story?
seems pretty fucking serious

Quietstorm
10-07-2009, 01:11 PM
Props 2 u ElCount 4 postin news like this every damn day. For those wonderin y shit like doesnt get pretty much any coverage at all, y'all should find out who owns Associated Press, Reuters, the news TV stations,etc...

alexito
10-07-2009, 02:04 PM
but where would I place my pocket full of big faces?

ElCount
10-07-2009, 03:45 PM
but where would I place my pocket full of big faces?

Gold is probably your best hedge against inflation. Although I like silver much better. Do your own due diligence though.

ElCount
10-15-2009, 02:23 PM
Russia ready to abandon dollar in Oil, Gas trade with China

20:5014/10/2009

BEIJING, October 14 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is ready to consider using the Russian and Chinese national currencies instead of the dollar in bilateral oil and gas dealings, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday.

The premier, currently on a visit to Beijing, said a final decision on the issue can only be made after a thorough expert analysis.

"Yesterday, energy companies, in particular Gazprom, raised the question of using the national currency. We are ready to examine the possibility of selling energy resources for rubles, but our Chinese partners need rubles for that. We are also ready to sell for yuans," Putin said.

He stressed that "there should be a balance here."

On Tuesday, Russia and China agreed terms for Russian gas deliveries at a level of up to 70 billion cubic meters a year. China also imports oil from Russia.

The Russian prime minister said the issue would be addressed among others at a meeting of Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) finance ministers, who are to convene before the end of the year in Kazakhstan.

Britain's Independent newspaper reported last Tuesday that Russian officials had held "secret meetings" with Arab states, China and France on ending the use of the U.S. dollar in international oil trade.

The countries are reportedly seeking to switch from the dollar to a basket of currencies including the euro, Japanese yen, Chinese yuan, gold, and a new unified currency of leading Arab oil producing countries.

The Independent said the meetings have been confirmed by Chinese and Arab banking sources.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20091014/156468599.html

nastythavillian
10-15-2009, 04:17 PM
good luck to them...they are underestimating the power of the US, not so much the dollar cause the dollar is backed by faith, but the strength and the recovery the markets have made can't be ignored...Obama is concentrating on strengthen the US from within to compete with the rest of the world...

ElCount
10-15-2009, 05:53 PM
I'm not so sure about strength and recovery because we are still very credit dependent and there are talks of another bubble in commercial real estate (albeit it will be more mild compared to the housing bubble we just had). Not to mention credit card loans, auto loans, student loans, etc...Banks are still having loan losses and I think they will for quite some time. And the position of the Federal Reserve is that there is still a lot of slack in the economy and it's plainfully obvious that without such low historic interest rates that slack would be there for quite some time.

Obama is concentrating on strengthen the US from within to compete with the rest of the world... <<< Anything in particular? Not hatin', just sayin', it's a pretty vague statement.

nastythavillian
10-15-2009, 06:03 PM
Yeah there are a few things like protecting the unions, particularly in stopping Chinese tires which were killing the industry here...also the economic stimulus hasn't kicked in fully, but when it does a lot of that will be spent here in repairing this country's infrastructure creating a lot of job and kick starting a lot of middle class jobs...the man has a plan, lot of people forget dude has to repair 8 years of craziness...

Outlaw619
10-15-2009, 06:09 PM
Another housing crisis is about to rear it's ugly face soon.

500 million pounds of defective Chinese drywall used to make houses from 2004 to 2008. The current number of claims are low because people are not reporting the problem to the insurance companies for fear of having the insurance policies dropped.

This shit is going to get real bad.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gD4avarflIqeq856bkEM8jMJRR_wD9BBMB980

ElCount
10-15-2009, 06:20 PM
Yeah there are a few things like protecting the unions, particularly in stopping Chinese tires which were killing the industry here...also the economic stimulus hasn't kicked in fully, but when it does a lot of that will be spent here in repairing this country's infrastructure creating a lot of job and kick starting a lot of middle class jobs...the man has a plan, lot of people forget dude has to repair 8 years of craziness...

Hmmm...I see protectionism as evidence of a weak economy where governments subsidize and prop up inefficient sectors of the businesses or industries that need to correct.

As far as the Stimulus Plan goes, in the short term sure it will bolster economic activity but it is just one of many distortions that causes the business cycle. In the boom it always feels good. In the bust, not so much.

Another housing crisis is about to rear it's ugly face soon.

500 million pounds of defective Chinese drywall used to make houses from 2004 to 2008. The current number of claims are low because people are not reporting the problem to the insurance companies for fear of having the insurance policies dropped.

This shit is going to get real bad.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gD4avarflIqeq856bkEM8jMJRR_wD9BBMB980

That's pretty crazy.

Outlaw619
10-15-2009, 06:36 PM
Yeah bro, it's fucking people over left and right.

My sister-in-law's friend was dealing with this shit last year. The end result was horrible. Black mold, lawsuits against the builders, bankruptcy, foreclosure, and divorce. The builder ended up going under resulting in ZERO compensation so far.

ElCount
10-15-2009, 08:42 PM
Yeah stuff like this is always terrible, sorry to hear its affecting you so bad.

I do think it's the builders' fault rather than the insurers. Obviously if they knew the walls had some kind of defect that were causing all these health and other problems they'd never insure the house. If the insurers insured everybody with a claim they'd go bankrupt within seconds and most people wouldn't receive any compensation. Plus contracts need to be enforced IMHO.

It's very likely that the leaders of the Chinese industries responsible will be shot by the Government. Either that or they might commit cuicide.

gnober
10-16-2009, 01:17 PM
Under estimating the power of US? If anything we are OVERestimating our economy's wealth.

Really... Look at our national deficit (the highest its been e-v-e-r been in the history of mankind), and its only growing deeper by the second. Just a couple of years into the future and the govt won't be able to pay for healthcare anymore.

China, meanwhile, has more than $2 trillion in reserve. If China decides to stop lending money our country will crumble in a heartbeat.. Ofcourse that scenario is unlikely as we are China's biggest trading partner but it could very well do so just to prove a point.

Just about the only solution is another bubble (i.e. fake wealth). Anything less than that and its China = 1, US = 0.

ElCount
10-16-2009, 02:48 PM
Under estimating the power of US? If anything we are OVERestimating our economy's wealth.

Really... Look at our national deficit (the highest its been e-v-e-r been in the history of mankind), and its only growing deeper by the second. Just a couple of years into the future and the govt won't be able to pay for healthcare anymore.

China, meanwhile, has more than $2 trillion in reserve. If China decides to stop lending money our country will crumble in a heartbeat.. Ofcourse that scenario is unlikely as we are China's biggest trading partner but it could very well do so just to prove a point.

Just about the only solution is another bubble (i.e. fake wealth). Anything less than that and its China = 1, US = 0.

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/images/The%20Truth.jpg

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l138/ElCount/usdebtclock.jpg

ElCount
10-16-2009, 03:07 PM
Another housing crisis is about to rear it's ugly face soon.

500 million pounds of defective Chinese drywall used to make houses from 2004 to 2008. The current number of claims are low because people are not reporting the problem to the insurance companies for fear of having the insurance policies dropped.

This shit is going to get real bad.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gD4avarflIqeq856bkEM8jMJRR_wD9BBMB980

U.S. to Press China on Drywall

By MELANIE TROTTMAN

WASHINGTON -- The new chairman of the Consumer Product Safety Commission said she would ask China to help pay for the billions of dollars in damage to U.S. homes blamed on Chinese-made drywall.

"I will find out if any discussions are going on in China about the costs, are they prepared to participate in providing funds, and what would it take for that to occur," CPSC Chairman Inez Tenenbaum said in an interview ahead of a trip to China next week for a biennial U.S.-China consumer product safety summit.

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Associated Press Developers of the Boynton Waters housing development in Boynton Beach, Fla., advertised on Wednesday that their project is free of Chinese drywall, which is blamed for health problems and property damage.
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It wasn't clear what the Chinese response would be to a request for compensation. The Chinese Embassy didn't respond Thursday to phone messages seeking comment.

Ms. Tenenbaum said she also planned to start discussions with Chinese officials on whether the U.S. needs a regulatory standard for drywall composition. "I think we need one," she said.

The CPSC has received about 1,500 reports from residents in 27 states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico, who blame health problems and property damage on Chinese drywall in their homes. State and local authorities have received similar reports that include homeowner complaints about respiratory problems, bloody noses and recurrent headaches.

The Chinese drywall, also known as gypsum or wallboard, is under investigation for emitting sulfide fumes suspected of causing the homeowner complaints. As many as 100,000 houses across the country have the suspect drywall, most of them built in 2006 and 2007 when a spike in new construction occurred in part as homeowners rebuilt following hurricanes in 2004 and 2005. That prompted imports of drywall, which developers traditionally had sourced domestically.

A CPSC spokesman said the agency has identified a "handful" of Chinese drywall makers that supplied the suspect drywall, although the agency hasn't publicly named them. The agency's investigators visited gypsum mines and drywall facilities in China in August.

Some researchers in China have said problems may have come from bad batches of gypsum, and weren't necessarily widespread. In August, one major manufacturer of Chinese drywall, Knauf Plasterboard Tianjin Co., said its tests indicate that its drywall isn't harmful.

Consulting firm Towers Perrin estimates the tab for drywall damage could range from $15 billion to $25 billion. It wasn't clear what share of that amount would be paid by property and casualty insurers.

Related ArticleInsurers Drop Drywall Victims .
The CPSC is under pressure from Congress and homeowners to complete a long-running probe of the drywall problems that involves several federal agencies. The CPSC said the investigation has been slowed by complex science and limited resources that have required it to contract out lab work to various sources. Ms. Tenenbaum said she planned to oversee the release of initial results from the first two parts of the investigation by the end of this month, after she returns from China. There is no target date for a completion of the entire investigation.

Many owners of homes with suspect drywall have had to move out of their properties, and four members of Congress earlier this month sent a letter to the Federal Emergency Management Agency seeking assistance for them. Ms. Tenenbaum said she was also prepared to ask Congress for mortgage relief for homeowners who have had to move out of their unsellable houses and sometimes purchase second homes.

The problems with Chinese drywall follow a string of recalls of Chinese-made toys two years ago that led Congress to pass a sweeping new law setting tougher safety standards for children's products, including stricter limits on lead content.

Since then, the number of toy recalls has fallen, Ms. Tenenbaum said, noting that China has closed many toy factories and started to implement the new rules. The agency had 38 toy recalls in the year ended Sept. 30, 2009, 15 of which involved lead, down from 85 recalls a year earlier, 41 of which involved lead.

Ms. Tenenbaum said she would tell Chinese authorities that the U.S. would strictly enforce its new laws on products ranging from toys and all-terrain vehicles to electrical products.

She said she also wanted to create a partnership with China that includes educating its government and manufacturers about U.S. standards.

"We are not being naive," she said. "We will stop [products] at the ports if they're not in compliance." But, she added, "The time to build safety in is not when that toy comes into the port. I'm taking a proactive preventive stance on this."

During her visit to Shanghai, Wuxi and Beijing, Ms. Tenenbaum will tour manufacturing plants and testing facilities and participate in panel groups with Chinese government officials about product safety.

Sen. Bill Nelson, a Democrat from Florida, recently asked President Barack Obama to include Chinese drywall on the agenda when the president travels to China next month, an aide for Mr. Nelson said. The White House didn't respond to a request for comment.

Write to Melanie Trottman at melanie.trottman@wsj.com

Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A3

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125564911387588795.html